Hold Me-Thrill Me

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Posts by Hold Me-Thrill Me

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  44

  God & JW can't exist without "evil"

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was thinking the other day that so far jw's and god have always needed or relied on "evil" to get items done or taken care of.

  almost every bible prophecy and jw teaching would not exist without "evil".. let's take the prophecy of jesus for example, it would not have been fulfilled without evil.

  when you think about it, he was a needed evil in order for prophecy to be fulfilled.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  Life itself is a story of good and evil.
  
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  44

  God & JW can't exist without "evil"

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was thinking the other day that so far jw's and god have always needed or relied on "evil" to get items done or taken care of.

  almost every bible prophecy and jw teaching would not exist without "evil".. let's take the prophecy of jesus for example, it would not have been fulfilled without evil.

  when you think about it, he was a needed evil in order for prophecy to be fulfilled.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  LOL, no it wasn't a jc question. Just wondered how you would answer that's all.
  
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  44

  God & JW can't exist without "evil"

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was thinking the other day that so far jw's and god have always needed or relied on "evil" to get items done or taken care of.

  almost every bible prophecy and jw teaching would not exist without "evil".. let's take the prophecy of jesus for example, it would not have been fulfilled without evil.

  when you think about it, he was a needed evil in order for prophecy to be fulfilled.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  Do you believe God is all evil?
  
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  94

  Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

  i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

  it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  Cofty: So why did Jesus' god not educate them?

  I've already answered that question. We are now entering an endless circle of argument for argument's sake. I'm stepping off the merry-go-round until you have something interesting to say.
  
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  16

  Interesting point about elders appointment by holy spirit (apostacy case)

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i was just listening to a jc for apostasy on jwstruggle.

  the issue was raised if elders are appointed by holy spirit, then why is there such an issue with sex abuse.

  the answer was given (and i thought it was quite true) well jesus was the son of god and he appointed judas under holy spirit, just to have him turn on him.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  In actual fact, it is believed that the elders are appointed by holy spirit because they are judged to have met the standards for older men in Timothy and Titus. It is these standards, that the Society believes are from the holy spirit. Thus when a man is appointed elder it is because the elders and co have judged him as meeting the inspired standard in the Bible and thus it is said he has been appointed by holy spirit.

  As for Judas, though Jesus knew his heart that did not mean that Judas was predestined to betray him. Judas did what he did because his heart was greedy nothing more. A business owner may know which of his employees is likely to steal from him but he says nothing until the deed is done. Meanwhile that employee enjoys the same benefits and pay raises and yearly bonuses of all the rest. So too Judas benefited from seeing what the others saw and hearing what they heard and eating what Jesus provided but that did not change his heart.
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  94

  Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

  i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

  it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  Cofty, the OT is just as "moral" as the 21st century. The difference is they were ignorant we are not.

  (Edited to add I am off to do yard work.)
  
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  94

  Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

  i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

  it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  Cofty: I think you are allowing that the bible cannot be trusted when it tells us what OT god said and did.

  No, I'm saying that the Bible has suffered from the faulty standard set by fundamentalist Christians who came to believe everything written in the Bible is to be taken literally. This was not the way it was understood by Jews in the past.
  
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  94

  Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

  i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

  it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  Cofty, if you were addressing fundamentalist Christians only perhaps you should have pointed that out if you did I apologize for missing it. Richard Dawkins deceptively uses the narrow beliefs of fundamentalist Christians to color all Christians and the Bible. Christians are not monolithic.
  

  Therefore Jesus is not a moral leader by modern standards.

  Do you believe we live in a moral society today? Is the US a moral country? Is punishing a murderer immoral? How do you define moral? Just? Jesus is just, he is moral.
  
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  94

  Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

  i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

  it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  
  

  Oubliette: That doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't call their beliefs what they are: harmful delusions.

  
  

  I cannot agree. To be unable to see the unseen does not itself prove that the unseen is a delusion. I recognize the futility of meeting on this subject. I post to hopefully encourage a few Christians who believe in God not to make converts. That's not my job only God can do that. Having said that I do respect all opinions here and appreciate the love of neighbor so evident on this forum.
  

  
  

  
  
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  94

  Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

  i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

  it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

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  Hold Me-Thrill Me

  Cofty: The god of the OT was "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ".

  Jesus prayed to his God and Father. He obeyed him, and taught his followers to do the same. He came to do the will of the god of the OT.

  All this is true. Jesus loved YHWH, he loved his Father.

  It is somewhat hypocritical for men and women who today recognize the necessity of having standing armies ready to defend their nation and do the bidding of their political leaders, and a justice system meting out punishment as deemed warranted by their courts to then find it unconscionable that ancient Israel did the very same.

  This is beyond presentism it is nonsensical.

  The ancient Jews lived in a world far different from our own. Their laws reflected their time not ours. God dealt with them in their time and not ours. Some day our generation may be condemned for allowing abortions, the wanton killing in war, the trashing of the earth, the excess commercialism and greedy promotion for the best and latest with little regard for future generations and their needs.

  But if a future more enlightened generation should cast their critical eye on our times they would be wrong to think that they would have been better than our generation. They hopefully will recognize that what we are is where we are in the advancing of a civilized world. We cannot live outside of our time. Neither could the ancient Jews. Neither did God require it of them because our time was not yet upon the world.
  

  Let's allow reason to have its day.

  
  

  Frank